[eiffel-users] Eiffel app causes Blue Screen after Windows 10 Creators Update?

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[eiffel-users] Eiffel app causes Blue Screen after Windows 10 Creators Update?

Thomas Beale-4

The reason I installed Eiffel 17.05 was actually because the ADL Workbench binary, built as a 64-bit binary with ES 16.05 under Windows 10 as it was about 8 months ago reliably causes a BSOD on Windows 10, post the 'Creators Update'. Not just sometimes - every time I started it, after the splash screen and main window display, within 2 or 3 mouse strokes.

No other application causes a BSOD, i.e. Chrome, Thunderbird, IntelliJ, MagicDraw or anything else I use.

So I installed ES 17.05 with the intention of rebuilding the application with the last C libs and headers (in case any of this may have changed to accommodate changes in Windows). Studio runs fine, but when I start the newly built application in Studio mode, I get a BSOD soon after starting it.

My impression is that mouse clicks or moves have something to do with it. Could something be different with the Windows application event loop in latest WIndows?

This is an EV2 application with docking, that has run smoothly for many years, and been updated to latest Eiffel pretty regularly.

Is anyone else seeing a BSOD on Windows 10 (Creators update) with any Eiffel applications?

Has anyone else with an EV2 Eiffel application seen it work reliably under Windows 10 (Creators update)?

- thomas

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Re: [eiffel-users] Eiffel app causes Blue Screen after Windows 10 Creators Update?

Emmanuel Stapf
Administrator
EiffelStudio is being built on Windows 10 Creators Update and it runs
fine. However we do not compile it using the latest version of the C
compiler, we are still using VS 2010 / WSDK 7.1 for this to ensure
that it will work for all versions of Visual Studio installed. Which
version of Visual Studio are you using? Does the BSOD occur even with
the simplest EiffelVision2 application? Could you also copy this
executable and run it on a different Windows 10 machine to see if the
issue is machine specific or OS specific?

Note that Larry reported something very similar but it seemed related
to some updates/drivers issue.

Manu



On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 12:14 PM, Thomas Beale <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> The reason I installed Eiffel 17.05 was actually because the ADL Workbench
> binary, built as a 64-bit binary with ES 16.05 under Windows 10 as it was
> about 8 months ago reliably causes a BSOD on Windows 10, post the 'Creators
> Update'. Not just sometimes - every time I started it, after the splash
> screen and main window display, within 2 or 3 mouse strokes.
>
> No other application causes a BSOD, i.e. Chrome, Thunderbird, IntelliJ,
> MagicDraw or anything else I use.
>
> So I installed ES 17.05 with the intention of rebuilding the application
> with the last C libs and headers (in case any of this may have changed to
> accommodate changes in Windows). Studio runs fine, but when I start the
> newly built application in Studio mode, I get a BSOD soon after starting it.
>
> My impression is that mouse clicks or moves have something to do with it.
> Could something be different with the Windows application event loop in
> latest WIndows?
>
> This is an EV2 application with docking, that has run smoothly for many
> years, and been updated to latest Eiffel pretty regularly.
>
> Is anyone else seeing a BSOD on Windows 10 (Creators update) with any Eiffel
> applications?
>
> Has anyone else with an EV2 Eiffel application seen it work reliably under
> Windows 10 (Creators update)?
>
> - thomas
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Eiffel Users" group.
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> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/eiffel-users.
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Re: [eiffel-users] Eiffel app causes Blue Screen after Windows 10 Creators Update?

Thomas Beale-4
Hi Manu,
firstly I don't use VS or VC++ on my current machine, they are not even installed. ES is using mingw (for at least a year maybe two).
The machine is a Dell XPS 15, currently on Win 10 + Creators update.

Regarding Eiffel Studio:
  • I have not tested the BSOD problem on a second computer with the same OS version, but am updating an old laptop to try it
  • My initial impression is that moving the mouse into a Grid control causes a BSOD. On my own app, and even just on ES, if I start it then move the mouse into the lower tool panel, I instantly get a BSOD. Earlier tests it too a bit longer, e.g. debugging an application and moving mouse into the object tool grid causes a BSOD reliably.
  • Initially I thought it might be my Logitech trackball (working normally for years), but I see some problem reports about mice and trackballs on latest Win 10 Creators update posts, so I did all of the above just with the laptop unplugged from its docking station, i.e. just the built-in hardware. Same result - BSOD.
  • I compiled the example calculator application (which is not visual), and tried debugging - as soon as the mouse enters the object tool grid => BSOD.
  • on the current machine, I can't (so far) cause a BSOD in any other way, e.g. with IntelliJ, Oxygen, MagicDraw and other similar tools with complex UIs. Other than Eiffel, the machine feels normally stable.
I will try all this with another machine, both by copying a built executable (if I can manage to build one) or by doing the whole build process on the other machine and report back here.

Another thing I just thought of is that I recently turned on 'pointer trails' to try to stop display flickering (another recent and common Win 10 Creators update problem). I wonder if doing that interacts in some strange way with the Eiffel grid control. I am about to test this now (but posting this beforehand, since it's quite likely I'll have another BSOD in a few seconds ;)

- thomas

On Wednesday, June 28, 2017 at 9:18:44 PM UTC+1, Emmanuel STAPF [ES] wrote:
EiffelStudio is being built on Windows 10 Creators Update and it runs
fine. However we do not compile it using the latest version of the C
compiler, we are still using VS 2010 / WSDK 7.1 for this to ensure
that it will work for all versions of Visual Studio installed. Which
version of Visual Studio are you using? Does the BSOD occur even with
the simplest EiffelVision2 application? Could you also copy this
executable and run it on a different Windows 10 machine to see if the
issue is machine specific or OS specific?

Note that Larry reported something very similar but it seemed related
to some updates/drivers issue.

Manu



On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 12:14 PM, Thomas Beale <<a href="javascript:" target="_blank" gdf-obfuscated-mailto="VBuwfKC7DwAJ" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href=&#39;javascript:&#39;;return true;" onclick="this.href=&#39;javascript:&#39;;return true;">wolan...@...> wrote:

>
> The reason I installed Eiffel 17.05 was actually because the ADL Workbench
> binary, built as a 64-bit binary with ES 16.05 under Windows 10 as it was
> about 8 months ago reliably causes a BSOD on Windows 10, post the 'Creators
> Update'. Not just sometimes - every time I started it, after the splash
> screen and main window display, within 2 or 3 mouse strokes.
>
> No other application causes a BSOD, i.e. Chrome, Thunderbird, IntelliJ,
> MagicDraw or anything else I use.
>
> So I installed ES 17.05 with the intention of rebuilding the application
> with the last C libs and headers (in case any of this may have changed to
> accommodate changes in Windows). Studio runs fine, but when I start the
> newly built application in Studio mode, I get a BSOD soon after starting it.
>
> My impression is that mouse clicks or moves have something to do with it.
> Could something be different with the Windows application event loop in
> latest WIndows?
>
> This is an EV2 application with docking, that has run smoothly for many
> years, and been updated to latest Eiffel pretty regularly.
>
> Is anyone else seeing a BSOD on Windows 10 (Creators update) with any Eiffel
> applications?
>
> Has anyone else with an EV2 Eiffel application seen it work reliably under
> Windows 10 (Creators update)?
>
> - thomas
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Eiffel Users" group.
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Re: [eiffel-users] Eiffel app causes Blue Screen after Windows 10 Creators Update?

Thomas Beale-4
In reply to this post by Emmanuel Stapf
Quick update: with mouse 'pointer trails' turned off, I can now run the old (pre Creators-update) binary of our app, and also ES, and I can't make a BSOD happen via any of the previous actions I tested. Fingers crossed.

So my working hypothesis is that if one were to turn pointer trails on (Start > Settings > Devices > Mouse > Additional Mouse Properties > Pointer options Tab > Visbility), then just start ES and move the mouse around in any kind of Grid control tool like the object tool, you will get a BSOD.

This might have nothing at all to do with Creators update, I have never ever turned pointer trails on in my life before, so it's probably worth testing on any version of Windows.

- thomas

On Wednesday, June 28, 2017 at 9:18:44 PM UTC+1, Emmanuel STAPF [ES] wrote:
EiffelStudio is being built on Windows 10 Creators Update and it runs
fine. However we do not compile it using the latest version of the C
compiler, we are still using VS 2010 / WSDK 7.1 for this to ensure
that it will work for all versions of Visual Studio installed. Which
version of Visual Studio are you using? Does the BSOD occur even with
the simplest EiffelVision2 application? Could you also copy this
executable and run it on a different Windows 10 machine to see if the
issue is machine specific or OS specific?

Note that Larry reported something very similar but it seemed related
to some updates/drivers issue.

Manu



On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 12:14 PM, Thomas Beale <<a href="javascript:" target="_blank" gdf-obfuscated-mailto="VBuwfKC7DwAJ" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href=&#39;javascript:&#39;;return true;" onclick="this.href=&#39;javascript:&#39;;return true;">wolan...@...> wrote:

>
> The reason I installed Eiffel 17.05 was actually because the ADL Workbench
> binary, built as a 64-bit binary with ES 16.05 under Windows 10 as it was
> about 8 months ago reliably causes a BSOD on Windows 10, post the 'Creators
> Update'. Not just sometimes - every time I started it, after the splash
> screen and main window display, within 2 or 3 mouse strokes.
>
> No other application causes a BSOD, i.e. Chrome, Thunderbird, IntelliJ,
> MagicDraw or anything else I use.
>
> So I installed ES 17.05 with the intention of rebuilding the application
> with the last C libs and headers (in case any of this may have changed to
> accommodate changes in Windows). Studio runs fine, but when I start the
> newly built application in Studio mode, I get a BSOD soon after starting it.
>
> My impression is that mouse clicks or moves have something to do with it.
> Could something be different with the Windows application event loop in
> latest WIndows?
>
> This is an EV2 application with docking, that has run smoothly for many
> years, and been updated to latest Eiffel pretty regularly.
>
> Is anyone else seeing a BSOD on Windows 10 (Creators update) with any Eiffel
> applications?
>
> Has anyone else with an EV2 Eiffel application seen it work reliably under
> Windows 10 (Creators update)?
>
> - thomas
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Eiffel Users" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to <a href="javascript:" target="_blank" gdf-obfuscated-mailto="VBuwfKC7DwAJ" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href=&#39;javascript:&#39;;return true;" onclick="this.href=&#39;javascript:&#39;;return true;">eiffel-users...@googlegroups.com.
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Re: [eiffel-users] Eiffel app causes Blue Screen after Windows 10 Creators Update?

Emmanuel Stapf
Administrator
Just tried but I had no issue. I'm running windows creator update. I
would check the video driver and the mouse driver and update them if
there are any new versions. What you could also do is run WinDbg on
EiffelStudio and hopefully it could catch any issue before going to
BSOD and that might give some insight.

Manu

On Thu, Jun 29, 2017 at 7:38 AM, Thomas Beale <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Quick update: with mouse 'pointer trails' turned off, I can now run the old
> (pre Creators-update) binary of our app, and also ES, and I can't make a
> BSOD happen via any of the previous actions I tested. Fingers crossed.
>
> So my working hypothesis is that if one were to turn pointer trails on
> (Start > Settings > Devices > Mouse > Additional Mouse Properties > Pointer
> options Tab > Visbility), then just start ES and move the mouse around in
> any kind of Grid control tool like the object tool, you will get a BSOD.
>
> This might have nothing at all to do with Creators update, I have never ever
> turned pointer trails on in my life before, so it's probably worth testing
> on any version of Windows.
>
> - thomas
>
> On Wednesday, June 28, 2017 at 9:18:44 PM UTC+1, Emmanuel STAPF [ES] wrote:
>>
>> EiffelStudio is being built on Windows 10 Creators Update and it runs
>> fine. However we do not compile it using the latest version of the C
>> compiler, we are still using VS 2010 / WSDK 7.1 for this to ensure
>> that it will work for all versions of Visual Studio installed. Which
>> version of Visual Studio are you using? Does the BSOD occur even with
>> the simplest EiffelVision2 application? Could you also copy this
>> executable and run it on a different Windows 10 machine to see if the
>> issue is machine specific or OS specific?
>>
>> Note that Larry reported something very similar but it seemed related
>> to some updates/drivers issue.
>>
>> Manu
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 12:14 PM, Thomas Beale <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> >
>> > The reason I installed Eiffel 17.05 was actually because the ADL
>> > Workbench
>> > binary, built as a 64-bit binary with ES 16.05 under Windows 10 as it
>> > was
>> > about 8 months ago reliably causes a BSOD on Windows 10, post the
>> > 'Creators
>> > Update'. Not just sometimes - every time I started it, after the splash
>> > screen and main window display, within 2 or 3 mouse strokes.
>> >
>> > No other application causes a BSOD, i.e. Chrome, Thunderbird, IntelliJ,
>> > MagicDraw or anything else I use.
>> >
>> > So I installed ES 17.05 with the intention of rebuilding the application
>> > with the last C libs and headers (in case any of this may have changed
>> > to
>> > accommodate changes in Windows). Studio runs fine, but when I start the
>> > newly built application in Studio mode, I get a BSOD soon after starting
>> > it.
>> >
>> > My impression is that mouse clicks or moves have something to do with
>> > it.
>> > Could something be different with the Windows application event loop in
>> > latest WIndows?
>> >
>> > This is an EV2 application with docking, that has run smoothly for many
>> > years, and been updated to latest Eiffel pretty regularly.
>> >
>> > Is anyone else seeing a BSOD on Windows 10 (Creators update) with any
>> > Eiffel
>> > applications?
>> >
>> > Has anyone else with an EV2 Eiffel application seen it work reliably
>> > under
>> > Windows 10 (Creators update)?
>> >
>> > - thomas
>> >
>> > --
>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>> > Groups
>> > "Eiffel Users" group.
>> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>> > an
>> > email to [hidden email].
>> > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/eiffel-users.
>> > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Eiffel Software
>> 805-685-1006
>> http://www.eiffel.com
>> Customer support: http://support.eiffel.com
>> User group: http://groups.eiffel.com/join
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
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Re: [eiffel-users] Eiffel app causes Blue Screen after Windows 10 Creators Update?

Thomas Beale-4
I've already updated drivers for screen and mouse (due to other Win Creators update) so I don't think there is any avenue there.

- thomas

On Thursday, June 29, 2017 at 6:29:45 PM UTC+1, Emmanuel STAPF [ES] wrote:
Just tried but I had no issue. I'm running windows creator update. I
would check the video driver and the mouse driver and update them if
there are any new versions. What you could also do is run WinDbg on
EiffelStudio and hopefully it could catch any issue before going to
BSOD and that might give some insight.

Manu

On Thu, Jun 29, 2017 at 7:38 AM, Thomas Beale <<a href="javascript:" target="_blank" gdf-obfuscated-mailto="Ged4UPwAEAAJ" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href=&#39;javascript:&#39;;return true;" onclick="this.href=&#39;javascript:&#39;;return true;">wolan...@...> wrote:

> Quick update: with mouse 'pointer trails' turned off, I can now run the old
> (pre Creators-update) binary of our app, and also ES, and I can't make a
> BSOD happen via any of the previous actions I tested. Fingers crossed.
>
> So my working hypothesis is that if one were to turn pointer trails on
> (Start > Settings > Devices > Mouse > Additional Mouse Properties > Pointer
> options Tab > Visbility), then just start ES and move the mouse around in
> any kind of Grid control tool like the object tool, you will get a BSOD.
>
> This might have nothing at all to do with Creators update, I have never ever
> turned pointer trails on in my life before, so it's probably worth testing
> on any version of Windows.
>
> - thomas
>
> On Wednesday, June 28, 2017 at 9:18:44 PM UTC+1, Emmanuel STAPF [ES] wrote:
>>
>> EiffelStudio is being built on Windows 10 Creators Update and it runs
>> fine. However we do not compile it using the latest version of the C
>> compiler, we are still using VS 2010 / WSDK 7.1 for this to ensure
>> that it will work for all versions of Visual Studio installed. Which
>> version of Visual Studio are you using? Does the BSOD occur even with
>> the simplest EiffelVision2 application? Could you also copy this
>> executable and run it on a different Windows 10 machine to see if the
>> issue is machine specific or OS specific?
>>
>> Note that Larry reported something very similar but it seemed related
>> to some updates/drivers issue.
>>
>> Manu
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 12:14 PM, Thomas Beale <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> >
>> > The reason I installed Eiffel 17.05 was actually because the ADL
>> > Workbench
>> > binary, built as a 64-bit binary with ES 16.05 under Windows 10 as it
>> > was
>> > about 8 months ago reliably causes a BSOD on Windows 10, post the
>> > 'Creators
>> > Update'. Not just sometimes - every time I started it, after the splash
>> > screen and main window display, within 2 or 3 mouse strokes.
>> >
>> > No other application causes a BSOD, i.e. Chrome, Thunderbird, IntelliJ,
>> > MagicDraw or anything else I use.
>> >
>> > So I installed ES 17.05 with the intention of rebuilding the application
>> > with the last C libs and headers (in case any of this may have changed
>> > to
>> > accommodate changes in Windows). Studio runs fine, but when I start the
>> > newly built application in Studio mode, I get a BSOD soon after starting
>> > it.
>> >
>> > My impression is that mouse clicks or moves have something to do with
>> > it.
>> > Could something be different with the Windows application event loop in
>> > latest WIndows?
>> >
>> > This is an EV2 application with docking, that has run smoothly for many
>> > years, and been updated to latest Eiffel pretty regularly.
>> >
>> > Is anyone else seeing a BSOD on Windows 10 (Creators update) with any
>> > Eiffel
>> > applications?
>> >
>> > Has anyone else with an EV2 Eiffel application seen it work reliably
>> > under
>> > Windows 10 (Creators update)?
>> >
>> > - thomas
>> >
>> > --
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>>
>>
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